In this episode of Second Chances with Christy Belz, we have a remarkable woman whose life story epitomizes the essence of resilience, adaptability, and wisdom. Chrissie Gillies, now approaching her 80s, takes us on a reflective journey through the pivotal moments that have shaped her into the empowered figure she is today.
From her bold move to Australia, Chrissie’s narrative is not just one of success but of overcoming adversity and seizing life’s second acts with both hands. She talked about the challenges she conquered in the nascent computer industry, her bold strides through the trials of divorce and single parenthood, and her remarkable climb to management after a return to the workforce at 40.
As we celebrate her upcoming 80s, Chrissie shares her ‘six Cs’ for thriving—wisdom that’s as practical as it is profound, and a candid reflection on embracing the golden years with vigor and grace.
In this episode, you will learn the following:
- Maintaining relationships, curiosity, ability, bravery, and financial independence (the “six Cs”) as essential components of leading a happy life in older age.
- The vitality of continuous self-reinvention, highlighting how one can have multiple acts in life and the strength it takes to adapt and transform at any age.
- The importance of maintaining bonds across generations, with the belief that these relationships enrich life and offer diverse perspectives and learning opportunities.
- Advocating for women to become financially independent as a necessary step toward obtaining security and personal freedom.
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TRANSCRIPT
00:00:00 Christy: Hi and welcome to Second Chances with Christy Belz’s podcast. I’m your host, Christy Belz. Enjoy our array of talented, open-hearted guests and their thoughtfully curated stories of second chances, life-changing choices, and new perspectives. We are here to empower you on second chances in your life.
00:00:37 Christy: Well, I cannot be more excited. I get to be blessed with some remarkable women in my life, many in fact. And I just happened to meet this lovely woman across the pond in the lovely country of Australia. And actually, I met her on a Greece trip first. And the first time I met her, I remember sitting on a bench with her, and we just hit it off. And one of the first things we talked about was this concept of aging as she’s moving into her 80s and how important and relevant that age group is for me personally, because I have so many wonderful women in my life who are in and around 80, but for also other women in this age group to hear what other women are doing.
00:01:24 Christy: And that is my passion is to share the stories of women doing incredible things no matter how old they are and to share their wisdom. So this segment of my podcast is called Sage Wisdom. And I’m so delighted to have Chrissie Gillies with me today. Welcome, Chrissie.
00:01:42 Chrissie: Hello. I’m delighted to be here, Christy. It’s wonderful to be talking with you.
00:01:49 Christy: I love being with you. You are one of my favorite people on the planet, literally. I’ve been with you in Greece. We’ve been together in Australia. I get to see you when you come here in Denver. It’s just always a delight. So, Chrissie, one of the things that I am really passionate about, and I’ve been blessed my whole life, my whole adult life, to have women who were older than me. And I have friendships that spanned 20 years or 30 years younger than me, clear up to 80 and 90-year-olds in my life. And every one of the women in my life brings such great wisdom. And as I started in the introduction, when I sat down with you on the park bench, I think we were at the Acropolis, and we started talking, this whole concept of 80 came up. Do you remember that conversation?
00:02:31 Chrissie: I remember that conversation. I remember it. Clearly, we were almost the first people up on the Acropolis, weren’t we?
00:02:39 Christy: Yes. We got a ride, which made it easier.
00:02:42 Chrissie: One of the benefits of getting close to 80, they put you in the lift and take you up without having to walk.
00:02:49 Christy: That is a [bitty]. Although you walked everywhere we went, you totally blew me away. Yeah, so I want you to share a little bit about you. You have an amazing story. I’ve, you’ve shared it with me and talked about your professional development over the years and all the amazing, fun, crazy stuff that you’ve done and the remarkable work that you’re going to do. And then we’ll take a break. And then we come back. We’re going to talk about some sage women that you have. I’m very excited about it. I call it the six C’s you’ve created for being in your 80s. So to share with us, Chrissie, just a little bit about your story. Where did you come from? How did you get to where you are today?
00:03:30 Chrissie: Oh, okay. I’ll start at the very beginning. I was actually born in the UK, working class English. We came out to Australia in 1951 because my father wanted us to have a better life, which I will be eternally grateful to him for. But I had two older brothers. And think about it, my mother was born in 1905. So we were often near where the boys had to go to university and I was the girl and I didn’t have to go to university. I would get married and somebody would keep me in the manner to which I would be past [inaudible], to be accustomed. That didn’t really happen.
00:04:11 Chrissie: So I’ll look at my life and describe it in a set of turning points. So the first turning point in my life was, I was married at 19. I did what mom expected, I guess. I got married, but I had two children by the time I was 22. But the other thing is I had started work and I started work accidentally at the very beginning of the computer industry, BC, before computers. So by the time I was 26, I was divorced. And really my whole focus was not really on career. It was how do I earn enough money to send my children to the very best schools and to make sure that they have this wonderful education that I probably didn’t have. And I must say, a degree was, you know, it was such a big fuss in the house about the boys had to get university degrees that I felt quite inferior because I didn’t have a degree.
00:05:13 Christy: You and I share that in common, right? I read about that in my book, that I didn’t go to college out of high school and so.
00:05:18 Chrissie: Yeah.
00:05:19 Christy: Forever, I felt the shame about that, like I’m not going to the university.
00:05:23 Chrissie: Yep. I really understand that, Christy, in Australia, well you have them here, the Jesuits. I ended up by, they, the Jesuits, a college, Xavier College, bought a computer from the place I was working. And they actually asked me to go and work there. So I went and worked with the Jesuits for 10 years. I mean, the universe was really looking after me. I did ask them whether in fact actually, they could handle having a divorced Protestant who probably actually slept with people when I wasn’t married. But I wrote all of their systems, I wrote their accounting systems, and I ended up there as the acting [bursa].
00:06:02 Chrissie: And so the next really big decisive changing point in my life was I was reaching the grand age of 40 and I was going, am I going to end up by being a little gray-haired, old lady at Xavier College or am I going to go back into the big wide world and see where I get? Now children by then are teenagers. So I decided to go back in the big wide world. And really I discovered about snakes and ladders. I had to go down from being in quite a management position to I went back as a systems analyst and within six months, I’d actually worked my way up to managing the department I joined.
00:06:46 Chrissie: And I really discovered that I was very good at managing left brain, technical guys actually. That was the next phase of my life, begun in that consulting world. Once again, I was invited to join a French Canadian firm because I understood about banks and interchange and settlement and all the computers that sat in, behind all of that. And I joined a consulting firm. And there, interestingly enough, they were looking for a new leader of the Victorian arm of this company. And everybody was bitching about them bringing somebody else from Canada. And I said, why don’t we stop bitching and go with a solution about who we think should be the leader and who we want?
00:07:45 Chrissie: And so we got together and we looked at all of the options, looked at everybody and my colleagues decided that I would be the best person to run the practice because in fact, actually I had the best accounting knowledge which I’d actually learned by running three different schools at Xavier College along with everything else. So it was really, it was an amazing thing to be elected to leadership, that people and really very humbling. But, and so life was really going quite well.
00:08:22 Chrissie: Then came a curve ball for me. I woke up one day and I couldn’t see out of my left eye. My legs had gone numb and I was starting to not be able to walk properly. Anyhow, a number of tests, ultimately and waiting. I found out I had multiple sclerosis. That was a really big thing that happened because if I went into the office and said, as the leader, I’ve got multiple sclerosis immediately, they would look at me as going to be disabled.
00:09:01 Chrissie: So another huge decision I made in my life was I didn’t want MS to define me in any way. I wanted to define how I was going to deal with MS and it was not going to take control of me. So that was a really big thing. So I didn’t tell anyone. And if something went wrong, and I couldn’t, I’d say a skiing accident and like [some excuse]. But it was, it probably was good because then I actually took charge of my body and did an enormous amount of work on training muscle memory where I’d lost nerve connection.
00:09:45 Chrissie: And then onward and upward, I went into leading some extraordinarily big change programs, changing the way IT operated at one of the big banks in Australia, the ANZ Bank, and running 1,000 people, really big change program, very successful and, but that going back, one, it was another turning point in my life because that deep down feeling of self-worth, I mean, I had no tertiary education, no degree and everybody else didn’t have at least one or two. And somehow I had that inferior feeling.
00:10:33 Christy: Yeah.
00:10:33 Chrissie: And then I was asked to be a guest lecturer to the Melbourne Business School Executive MBA program. I realized and they wanted me to use the ANZ as a case study and other work I’d done and I realized that in fact actually I’d been to the University of Life for the last 35 years.
00:10:55 Christy: I call that University of Hard Knocks. Right?
00:10:57 Chrissie: Yeah, and it was definitely the equivalent of a degree and an MBA and what I discovered and I started owning my own power, I started owning that I was really good at designing and leading change. And I was gaining a really good reputation of making that change happen and making decisions and bringing everybody along with me. So at that stage, I decided that rather than just going for more executive positions, I’d see what came along and went out consulting.
00:11:38 Chrissie: And then I was actually headhunted to be chief information officer in a bank, which was a great role. In fact, actually, I was getting into my late 50s by then and I thought, oh, this is a bit like Goldilocks and the Three Bears because it was the perfect job in a bank and wonderful. Then along came another bank and acquired that bank. So my wonderful job went away. Then I was asked actually, by another bank to do a merger between St. George Bank in Australia and the Bank of South Australia, and anyhow, big merger.
00:12:27 Chrissie: And I pulled that off successfully and I was the executive and I was on the front page of the Bulletin Magazine with a big sign across me saying Dragon Tamer, because I was St. George and the dragon. So I guess, you know, in many ways, I had reached a fairly high level in an executive career. My mom was in her 90s, and I’ve told you about my executive life. My personal life wasn’t so good. I just a brief one, you know, divorced by 26, met the love of my life, did a Brady Bunch. He decided to go out to play. I couldn’t handle that. So I lived on my own again, then met a guy who was lovely and we lived together, but he couldn’t handle my teenage daughters. So he left.
00:13:23 Chrissie: I remained friends with these guys, incidentally. And then I met the guy who I stayed with, but he ended up very sadly being a depressed alcoholic. I’ll just go on with my story and we’ll get to John, who’s my last partner. I left St George and decided to look out, make sure I was a bit closer to mum and I started just doing freelance change programs. I decided to see if we could do something that would get John engaged. So we bought a hundred acres of land and planted a vineyard. And so I had 15 years of a corporate life of boards. I sat on around about 25 boards, focused mainly in governance, in technology. And I had planted a vineyard. And so that–
00:14:23 Christy: I love the story you’re telling about you mowing it.
00:14:26 Yeah, I’m really good on it. I’ve learnt how to drive big tractors, little tractors, forklifts. I had a 20-horse-wire, mow to mow, it’s a tractor actually with a mower deck underneath. And I kept around about 25 acres of that 100 acres all mowed and cleaned and all the vines on.
00:14:47 Christy: What my listeners don’t know is that you’re about the size of a very, very small lady. So to imagine her on her tractor mowing her vineyard, or vineyard, or vineyard, excuse me, just makes me smile ear to ear. That’s great.
00:15:08 Chrissie: I’m grateful to the universe for that experience, Christy, of the vineyard and the connection with nature and the connection. Actually we had a few cows and sheep and things, but I realized for people on the land, we were fine. If there wasn’t rain, if there was drought, we didn’t have enough hay, had money, could go out and buy hay, feed everybody. All the animals were happy. I just imagine being in a drought and you can’t go and buy hay and you watch your animals die. Nature is up close and personal in your face when you’re living so close to it.
00:15:53 Chrissie: Actually, another bit of a turning point was that that vineyard was actually we got burnt out in the 2009 fires in Victoria. So the house went, it went through the vineyard remarkably because I kept everything clean under the vines. All the vines went brown but most of them survived. But once again, the generosity of the people that came just from nowhere to help save the vineyard. About after the fires, 100 people arrived at the property to take off the nets. They replaced nearly 16 kilometers of dripper hose. They got water back to the vines within about three days of the fires. It was just remarkable.
00:16:52 Chrissie: And I talked to all of these people and they just said, they felt so helpless with so many people having had such tragic, 173 people died in those 2009 fires. It was just awful. We were just so lucky. We just lost a house. I think there was another big lesson there for me that I’ve never really been huge on physical things but you realize that all of that can get burnt if everybody’s still alive and you’ve still got your heart and your memories then you’re okay.
00:17:31 Christy: Yeah. All right, Chrissy, we need to take a quick break here. So we’re just going to cut to break and we’ll be right back with the amazing Chrissie Gillies.
00:17:45 Christy:This is your host, Christy Bellz. Many of the people you meet on my podcast have participated in my online curriculum called Uproot. This 15-week course takes you through my transformational process of understanding our roots, reviewing our path, and collecting the tools for life’s success. I would love to help you on your journey. Learn more about the Uproot course, take my quiz, and explore my transformational retreats at christybelz.com/uproot.
00:18:23 Christy: All right, welcome back. Oh my gosh, you know, my book is, Oh God of Second Chances here. And I share a lot of my stories in my book. And part of why I chose to want to do podcasting was I didn’t want the storytelling to end. And that second chance opportunity, how many opportunities, Chrissie describing her lifetime of second chances where she restarted, where she got divorced. She was a single mom, where she took on a career that was knew to many people in the time when we didn’t know much about it. And then she worked her way up and through a system that was very clearly defined for men at the time as a solopreneur and then moving into big industries, et cetera.
00:19:08 Christy: So the diagnosis of MS and then the fire, your entire vineyard burning down, lots and lots of opportunities for second chances in your life, Chrissie.
00:19:20 Chrissie: Actually, I think you’re the master of second chances.
00:19:26 Christy: We’re all on the back of the book.
00:19:30 Chrissie: When you make your book, you’re definitely the master of second chances.
00:19:33 Christy: I know how to get back up when I get knocked down, and I think you do too. So yeah, just going back, Chrissie, to that time when you and I were sitting on the bench at the Acropolis, and we were talking about aging. And you know, you being 80. And I was sharing with you, I have several in my life who are 80. And I just feel like there’s such wisdom to be able to garner. And so I wanted to have these conversations with you and with other women in my life. I call this segment Sage Wisdom. And I would love for you to share some nuggets of what you’re aware of at your age, given your experiences and the times that you’ve fallen down and you got back up and you kept going. and you made it in a really, really tough world out there. Yeah. Tell me what is the nuggets?
00:20:24 Chrissie: Well, I think that’s where do I start. I think for so much of our lives, we’ve been defined by our title. When that’s gone, we’re left with being ourselves and really being just who you are and being in the present. I think, and I do say I’ve been involved in running an emerging women leaders program, which a colleague and I designed, which is very much, and Christy, based on the same thing that you’re talking about is the stories of women they can learn from. But I think as a woman, our lives are made up of many stages. You can have a family and a career, but not all at the same time. I think I would like to pass on to anyone. I see women saying, I’m in my 50s and it’s sort of all over Red Rover. I’m thinking, you’ve got 50s, you’ve got 60s, you’ve got 70s, and now I’ve got 80s. For me, really, I think in the 70s, 60s, I was still doing the corporate and the vineyard. In the 70s, I was transitioning to, I think, finding what I call my new identity and being who Chrissie Gillies is and not the CIO or something or the person who is on that board.
00:22:08 Chrissie: And now the 80s challenges, I’d say the first challenge is actually staying really connected. Connected, Christie, as you put it, you’ve got friends in the younger generations, you’ve got friends in the older generations, and it’s staying connected with all of these different aspects because all of those people are going through different aspects of their lives. I can still learn so much from that, particularly being connected to the next generations coming through. And what problems they’re facing and what challenges. And certainly, I think having been born when I was born, I’ve lived at the end of one lot of world wars and nothing, we’ve been a chosen generation, I believe, the generation I’m in.
00:22:08 Chrissie: My next C would be around continuing to be curious and really staying, just staying in touch with the rate of change in the world. Another big C is keeping capability, both mental and physical. The physical one for me is a challenge and I am going to start with a personal trainer again next year and I’m going to give him the challenge of getting me to a position where I can almost ski again, probably not ski, but at least to do that.
00:23:43 Christy: Did you ski clear up until last year, correct? Was that?
00:23:49 Chrissie: No, until before COVID was my last ski. Yeah, and then COVID and another hip replacement. And the MS kicked in for a bit there. And the only way I can conquer the MS is staying on getting on physical walking machines and machines that make my legs go round. Yeah, so. And of course, we were confined and do that. The other challenge I’ve found for the 80s is the older you get, the harder it is to build but you can still build muscle even in your 80s. So I’ve read about that.
00:24:28 Chrissie: I think the next thing and probably the top of the list really is having the courage, the courage to be in my 80s, to accept the fact that I look in the mirror and go, “Oh, that place doesn’t reflect this young person that’s sitting in here. It’s got wrinkles all over it. Bugger.”
00:24:46 Christy: I know. It’s troubling, isn’t it?
00:24:53 Chrissie: And the courage to ask for a wheelchair at the airport, which is great, actually, because I’ve discovered everybody wants to be my friend. But that can’t be done. We go through all the queues. But I think the courage to continue to travel the world on my own, because my partner is now, he died at the beginning of COVID, which was probably a blessing in disguise. But, and I think, yeah, to continue. So I live with my dog now, and he’s a delight.
00:25:34 Christy: He’s bigger than you. Cracks me up.
00:25:38 Chrissie: It gets me up every morning and we’re at the park at seven o’clock, which is really great. But also the courage to share my story and experience and really help grow what I call the next generation of women leaders. The final C is one that I would recommend every woman thinks about and that’s financial independence. Cash. I am, the C is cash and I am passionate about women having that financial independence. In this emerging women leaders program, the number of women that have left that to their partner. And then if something breaks up, I know a few tragic stories there, but I think it’s really important that women actually take charge of that.
00:26:24 Chrissie: And I think, Christy, my goal is to build my world around growing the next generation and being involved in living in the present and understanding the problems and challenges of the future that women, particularly women, are challenged facing.
00:26:46 Christy: We need each other. You know, we know from the literature that women grow and develop with each other and with connection with each other. And so to have women leaders, even though, you know, you’re not still in the C-suite, you’re not doing the things to be part of organizations like we’re part of the International Women’s Forum, right? Be a mentor, to be a resource for women that are coming, right? Giving a hint up to those women and to support them in their experiences of what they’re going through. And I love the emerging women’s program that you facilitate. We talked at length about that. I just think the story is so important and that people get to reflect themselves in our stories.
00:27:29 Christy: So sharing your story and having the courage to do that is so beautiful. That’s why I’m doing what I want to do today. And that’s share these amazing women and these amazing stories with my audience, with the people that are following and wanting to be a part of this. So I just want to cap those Cs because I think they’re so great. So the first one was facing the challenges. The second one was staying connected. Connected. Curious?
00:27:54 Chrissie: Curious, continuing to be curious, keeping capability, having the courage, and having the cash.
00:28:02 Christy: And having the cash. Who is it that says every Virginia Wolf says every woman needs a room with a view and her own spending money. It’s one of mine. Yeah, beautiful. I love it. Oh, my gosh, Chrissie. I can’t thank you enough for being here, for sharing you with the audience that I have following us and to just have you in my life. It’s just such a great joy. And I… Excited I get to have dinner with you later this in the New Year and…
00:28:33 Chrissie: Looking forward to that.
00:28:34 Christy: We’ll get to see each other in New York at the International Women’s Forum event and I am coming back to Australia. I’m surely coming back soon because I fell in love with your country over there, so I have to come back.
00:28:46 Chrissie: Wonderful. Thank you so much. Christy and I love what you’re doing. I really do. I think it’s great and I’m looking forward to hearing the podcast.
00:28:56 Christy: Yeah, they’re good. They’re just as remarkable as you are. So again, my thanks to you. Thanks for being here. And big, big love to you and your family. Happy holidays. And we’ll talk soon.
00:29:07 Chrissie: Thanks, Christy.
00:29:09 Christy: Take care.
00:29:09 Chrissie: Thank you.
00:29:10 Christy: Bye.
00:29:15 Christy: It is the joy of my life to showcase the voices of people and the messy details of life’s journey. As you have experienced, my guests are thriving with purpose and style, but that does not mean that their life is easy and without challenges. I’ve dedicated my life to you and your journey. Thank you for listening to Second Chances with Christy Belz. Please subscribe and learn more at christybelz.com/SecondChances.