In this episode of “Second Chances,” Christy talks with Dr. Reverend David Goldberg, a spiritual counselor, life coach, and ordained minister. They explore David’s career transitions from corporate public relations to his current role as a spiritual leader, emphasizing pivotal life moments shaped by his journey of second chances. David shares stories from his time with the respected organization, Up With People, and profound spiritual experiences like those at Chartres Cathedral. He also shares insights on how creativity, diversity, and social justice are embraced within his teachings. Delving into personal growth, they discuss the power of labyrinths as a metaphor for life’s path.
Key Takeaways:
- Life Transformations: David’s transition from corporate PR to spiritual leadership highlights how one’s professional journey can align with personal and spiritual fulfillment.
- Integration of Spiritual Practices: The discussion on labyrinth walking underscores its profound impact as a tool for meditation and self-discovery.
- Commitment to Social Justice: Dr. Goldberg integrates social justice, creativity, and diversity as core pillars in his teachings and life work.
- Navigating Second Chances: Both speakers emphasize the notion that second chances involve continuous choice and embrace of every present moment.
- Inspiration from Experience: Personal stories, like those involving David’s mother, illustrate the power of reinvention and lifelong learning.
Learn more about Dr. David Goldberg:
Website: drdavidsgoldberg.com
LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-goldberg-ph-d-73bb326/
Transcript
0:00:00 Christy Belz: Hi and welcome to Second Chances with Christy Bell’s podcast. I’m your host, Christy Bells. Enjoy our array of talented, open hearted guests and their thoughtfully curated stories of second chances, life changing choices and new perspectives. We are here to empower you on Second Chances in your life. I’m so excited today to have Dr. Reverend David Goldberg join me on my podcast. I never know how to put all this things together for you.
0:00:44 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: Hey, you. Works just fine.
0:00:45 Christy Belz: Hey, you is perfect. I love that. David, welcome to the show. I am so excited because I decided that in my podcast series that I wanted to feature spiritual teachers that had been in my life. And you certainly have been one of those over the years. We’ve, we’ve trained together, we’ve worked together, we’ve worked together in organizations and I just so respect you and who you are and so I’m just delighted to have you with me today.
0:01:12 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: Thank you, Christy. The honor is mine. And the feeling is more than mutual.
0:01:17 Christy Belz: We got a mutual love affair, don’t we, babe?
0:01:19 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: It is true.
0:01:20 Christy Belz: I just adore you. So Dr. David is, let’s see, a spiritual counselor, a life coach, or Dave minister. And he’s dedicated his life to guiding others through transformation and second chances, as I call them. He brings a wealth of wisdom from his background in corporate leadership, ministry and coaching, helping individuals navigate life’s challenges, transitions with clarity, purpose, and spiritual grounding.
0:01:47 Christy Belz: He has spoken and taught all over the world, shared his insights on personal growth, resilience and power, and the power of new beginnings. Today we will explore his journey, the stepping chances he’s embraced, and the ways he’s helped others recognize and seize the opportunities for renewal in their lives. Again, welcome, David. I start everything I do these days with something I call permission to pause.
0:02:13 Christy Belz: So permission to pause is just you and I just taking a moment. If you’re comfortable, you can close your eyes and audience, you can listen in. We’re just going to pause for a minute and get centered. You can close your eyes and focus on your breath. It’s only a moment, right? It’s just a moment to pause, to tap in, to recognize your breath, your source, your light. Beautiful. When you’re ready, you can come back.
0:03:08 Christy Belz: Isn’t that wonderful? Like, I teach that all the time. Permission to pause. I make people put P2P stickers on their work desk so that they just give themselves like it’s a nanosecond. You know this, right? Just that small amount of time to get yourself back into the present moment.
0:03:24 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: I do love that Christie. And that’s actually how I’d start all of my Sunday talks. When I have the opportunity to speak in various churches and centers, I always start my talks with that two or three minutes or 90 seconds. Just that opportunity, as you beautifully identified, to be present. Because we know that all we have is this moment. Love, love it.
0:03:48 Christy Belz: Pulling ourselves back down to this moment. Right. Because we get all out there sometimes. So, David, I want to talk, and I really want you to share with the audience, telling us about yourself. As I said in the opening, you’re very accomplished, very educated. You have done so many things in your life through education, through your spiritual seeking, through your corporate work, through your teaching.
0:04:10 Christy Belz: So I just would love for you to have a moment to tell us about your life, your pivotal moments, and really what led you to specialize in spiritual counseling and life coaching.
0:04:21 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: Wow. Sit back, relax.
0:04:24 Christy Belz: I’m there. Totally down for that. Listen to the amazing David Goldberg.
0:04:28 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: Bless you. No, thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Gosh. Where to start? I guess I’ll jump in in the middle. Christy. Out of high school, I traveled with the musical group Up With People, and I had the opportunity to travel around the world with people my age at the time, 18 to 25 year olds from 20 or 22 countries. And we lived with people in their homes in eight countries on three continents.
0:04:55 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: And that was an amazing experience for actually two years right out of high school. Then I came back and started formal training at Colorado State, working on my degree in journalism and in my first journalism class. Anybody who has had similar experience knows that back in the day, we sat down and the first assignment was write your obituary and write what you want on your tombstone. And so talk about fast forward to the end of life.
0:05:24 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: So I started with the tombstone or the headstone, whatever I thought that might look like for a 19 or 20 year old. And I didn’t necessarily have the languaging of quiet time or silence or meditation. So I just thought about it. I thought about the assignment. I wanted to be truthful. I wanted to be authentic. And the thing that came to me for the headstone, for the tombstone underneath my name and the dates and the dash was, he was kind.
0:05:56 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: So that has really been one of my guiding principles. I would love to say that I’m there 100% of the time. I would love to say that I’m there 75% of the time. And it’s aspirational, something that I get to continue to work toward. So that has been really one of my guiding principles. And also through that experience, and up with people and traveling around the world. I had an inkling then and I gained more knowledge throughout those two years and certainly much more knowledge now knowing that I was a kid of privilege.
0:06:33 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: I was a white male in a society that was basically pretty welcoming to white males, not necessarily people of other identities, whatever that might look like or feel like being that recognizing that privilege. I had two parents that were married for 39 years. Not always ideal. And they stuck together for 39 years. I had two sets of grandparents, I had two older siblings. But for many looking in from the outside, it was idyllic.
0:07:05 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: And of course we all think our own family of origin puts the fun in dysfunctional. We certainly had our moments. And it was that true, that ability to travel around the world as a young person that really opened my eyes. There are different kinds of family units. There are people who look different and think different and pray different and love different around the world. To your question, that really set me on, on my journey, on my path, on my quest to be honoring of myself, my family and my background.
0:07:43 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: And just because somebody doesn’t do any of those things the same way I do, doesn’t make them bad or wrong. It’s simply a different experience.
0:07:54 Christy Belz: Yeah. So after you got back from up with People, what did you do next? I got your journalism degree. And then what happened?
0:08:01 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: Yeah, so I went right to Colorado State, started working on that bachelor’s in journalism with a focus in public relations. I’m grateful for the folks who work in higher ed and we had all the campus visits from all of the recruiters and all of those kinds of opportunities. And long story short, I actually interviewed with the organization called Club Med. The high end, hedonistic, hedonistically branded resorts.
0:08:29 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: So I interviewed with Club Med. I got a position with Club Med at Copper Mountain and at the time it was the only Club Med in the country. And of course I spoke as much French as my interviewers spoke English. So we did a lot of nodding and a lot of agreeing. So I graduated from college one week, drove from Fort Collins to Copper Mountain and started my illustrious career with Club Med. Which I thought being a marketing and PR guy that I would, that would be some part of the work that I would be doing.
0:09:04 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: And alas, it was taught I was working in the storeroom, checking out 50 pound bags of flour to the various in a sundry kitchens and getting the five gallon tins of olives. And so it was a rather humbling experience. I’d added a shoot.
0:09:20 Christy Belz: Yeah.
0:09:21 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: But I continued to Progress continued to network within my field through the Public Relations Society, the International association of Business Communicators, and started working in the field, if you will, in the field of marketing and public relations. And I’m very grateful for all of those experiences I had. I did some significant work in the corporate world, in the nonprofit world, in healthcare. I spent some time at what was then Lutheran Medical center as the public relations officer, and again, back in the day, did a fair amount of crisis communication and crisis pr, including when we had a pediatrician die of complications from HIV or aids, so that we didn’t know very much about HIV and AIDS at the time. So that was. That was truly a learning experience.
0:10:11 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: A lot of work in all of those areas of public relations and marketing. Yeah, spent some time through. Through that work, I was with US West Quest. US west, which became Quest, which became CenturyLink, which is now Lumen. I did some work for them as part of the Olympic sponsorship when US west sponsored the Winter Olympics in Salt Lake city.
0:10:36 Christy Belz: Yeah.
0:10:37 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: So U.S. west Quest wrote a check for $60 million to be a sponsor of five categories of the OLY. And I was tapped to be the director of Olympic Public relations. So I got a sense of. Yeah, really got a strong sense of what that looked like working with the United States Olympic Organizing Committee, International Olympic Organizing Committee, and the chair of the Salt Lake Olympic Organizing Committee at the time was a certain now former senator named Mitt Romney.
0:11:09 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: So I had the chance to work directly with Mitt Romney on that effort. And that was through the Olympic scandal of the day, if you will remember, the bribery scandal in the big cities, and so on and so forth.
0:11:21 Christy Belz: Wow.
0:11:21 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: Again, long story short, had the opportunity to fly in with our CEO, Sal Trujillo on one of our company planes from Denver to Salt Lake City. We landed. Saul got off the plane, handed Mitt Romney a check for $5 million as part of our Olympic sponsorship contract. And it was the first time in my public relations career that we generated local, national and international coverage for something we were contractually obligated to do.
0:11:50 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: So a lot of really interesting career opportunities. A lot of fascinating people. Yeah, yeah. Really humbled and honored to be able to do the work that I did.
0:12:00 Christy Belz: Yeah. Wow. Powerful. Yeah, I. Those stories I didn’t know about you, your early corporate work and work in PR and marketing. So I’ve only known you on your spiritual quest. Let’s talk about that. Let’s talk about. Because in my show notes, it talks about this mystical experience that you had at Chartres Cathedral outside of Paris. And I, too, have had the honor and privilege of walking and being in that cathedral retreat. It’s.
0:12:27 Christy Belz: Yeah, it’s magical. I’d love to hear what was that? Yes. And how did that transition you into this Reverend minister that you are today?
0:12:37 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: Yes. Thank you. Yeah. So a little bit of background, a little bit of context for that. My. My life partner and I couldn’t be married at the time, but my partner Harry and I were living in Evergreen, and I just had this epiphany one day that I want a bigger life. And I don’t know what that looks like. I don’t know what that means. It was very positive. It wasn’t generated out of any negative negativity or life crisis.
0:13:03 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: And I said, a friend invited me to Mile High Church in Denver, Colorado, and I said, I’m gonna go. And they’re doing excerpts from musicals, and they’re doing excerpts from the musical Oklahoma. So I’m gonna go see Oklahoma at this church. So I went. And it was really something for me. Christy. All of those pieces fit together. Their guest speaker or their minister that night was a dear friend of both of ours, Reverend Cynthia James.
0:13:29 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: And they sang, the choir sang a song from high school that I was familiar with, Abraham, Martin and John, Abraham Lincoln, Martin Luther King and John F. Kennedy. And then they did the music, the excerpts from this musical. So everything about this experience fit. So that was my journey into formal education about religion and spirituality, if you will. I started taking classes at Mile High Church under the banner of progressive spirituality, if you will, honoring all people and all faith traditions.
0:14:01 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: And so fast forward. Reverend Cynthia, who I mentioned earlier, was doing a pilgrimage to Chartres, to the cathedral there. And so there were, oh, I don’t know, maybe 20 of us in this particular group. And to your point of starting us in being grounded and starting us in being present, Cynthia started this adventure, this journey for us with a week of intentional travel in Paris. And we did a day of intentional cooking.
0:14:30 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: Really, this old boy from suburban Colorado doing French cooking. Okay. Then we did a day of grounded, intentional photography with Cynthia’s husband Carl, who, as you know, is a world class photographer. And so we had all of these wonderful experiences. Then we traveled two hours north to Chartres. We did another week of building our intention. When we step onto the labyrinth, what do we want? What are we calling in? What are we walking with? What is our prayer? What is our meditation?
0:15:05 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: We spent a week working on that. And after that week of work, my meditation was I am enough. That was the mantra that I was working with, yes. So we had our private. Our private experience with just our group. The candles were lit, hundreds of candles. A seven piece medieval band, if you will, was playing live music for our private walk of the Chartres Cathedral. Cynthia stepped on and being the goddess that she is, she literally danced her way onto the labyrinth.
0:15:39 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: And so I was right behind her. I was next up, took off my shoes, I stepped onto the labyrinth and I just burst into tears. And I had been doing all this work around I am enough. And when I stepped onto the labyrinth, that whole mantra became I am. And that is what we know in spiritual community as well, is anything that we put after I am, however we are identifying, is really powerful. That’s what we’re calling in.
0:16:09 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: So, yes, I could still be with I am enough. And I could also be anything else that I chose.
0:16:16 Christy Belz: Oh, gosh. Beautiful.
0:16:18 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: I am powerful. I am extraordinary. I am a teacher, I am a learner, whatever that looked like. So we finished that experience, again, very moving, very powerful came back. And another friend who was with me on the trip, she and I continued to be called to labyrinth work. So we traveled to. We traveled to California, took a course to become certified labyrinth facilitators. So the labyrinth continues to be an important part of my life, an important part of my work.
0:16:48 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: And I. Yeah, I absolutely love it. I’m doing a workshop on the first Saturday in May, on May 3rd, World Labyrinth Day. It’s a free workshop. And I’ve been invited to work with the labyrinth at Unity Worldwide headquarters just outside of Kansas City in Lee’s Summit, Missouri.
0:17:09 Christy Belz: Isn’t it new there?
0:17:10 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: It’s a relatively new labyrinth, yes. So I’m honored to be invited to participate in that with Chris Katzenmaier from the Legacy Labyrinth Foundation. Chris is an extraordinary being and very powerful educator. And Chris and I are going to be partnering for that on World Labyrinth. There. Gosh, yeah. And I. For your. I’m sorry, Christy. For your listeners, you may not be familiar with World Labyrinth Day, the key activity, if you will, is walk as one at one.
0:17:42 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: And so the invitation is, wherever you are in the world, find a labyrinth and walk it at 1:00pM Walk it at 1:00pm Your time. So we have this continuous wave of people stepping onto the labyrinth, walking in peace, engaging in spiritual activism at the personal level in benefit of the greater good.
0:18:07 Christy Belz: Yeah, I love that. Love that. Yeah. I take people to labyrinths on my retreats. Wherever we are, we find one and walk them. And I just, I’m A huge unity village was my home church way back when in the day. So I didn’t know that. I’ve been there many times. Yeah, yeah. I’ve walked them in Maui. I’ve walked them in. They’re all over. So we’ll put the labyrinth locator link in the show notes so people actually can find the labyrinth that’s closest to them via that site. And we’ll put more notes about that, about your activity as well.
0:18:37 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: So thank you. I also happen to be speaking on April 6th at center for Spiritual Living, Colorado Springs.
0:18:45 Christy Belz: Okay.
0:18:46 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: And they have a beautiful labyrinth on site there dedicated to their late minister and my dear friend, Reverend Norm Bouchard.
0:18:53 Christy Belz: Oh, yeah.
0:18:54 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: And I’m also speaking in Grand Junction at the Grand Junction center for Spiritual Living, Grand Junction in August. And we intend to do some labyrinth work there as well. So very briefly, for your guests who may not be familiar, there is a significant difference between a labyrinth and a maze. A maze is built to intentionally confuse. So you have to think, you have to stop, you have to change plans, you have to redirect a labyrinth. On the other hand, there is one way in and one way out, and it’s just a beautiful walking meditation wherever people are on their spiritual path.
0:19:30 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: Labyrinths have been found in virtually every civilization since the beginning of time. So if you’re familiar, get out there and walk. If you’re not, I invite you to consider that.
0:19:41 Christy Belz: Yeah, yeah. Again, we’ll give them the details and we’ll have all those speaking opportunities for people to see and walk with you and then show notes.
0:19:48 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: Thank you so much.
0:19:49 Christy Belz: Yeah, you’re welcome. So you talk about three pillars. Creativity, diversity, and social justice. Yeah, I’d love for you just to expand on that a little bit. Creativity, diversity, and social justice.
0:20:02 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: You bet. So that came to me through actually my PhD work. I had earned my bachelor’s. I had earned my first Master’s degree. Then I stepped into this program for PhD work. It’s actually in leadership studies or ethical and creative leadership, with a concentration in creativity, diversity and social justice. And so with my mantra, with my intention of being kind, with those three pillars, that’s a way for me to expand that teaching, to connect with other people, to connect with like minded beings and to continue to learn and explore.
0:20:41 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: Like you, Christy, I am a lifelong learner. I know that we are all here to learn, to grow and to expand. I also know that I have the personality that I’ll continue to dive in. I’ll read this book, I’ll take this class I’ll listen to your podcast, I’ll do all of these things. And for me, it was helpful to have more of a defined situation. So I stepped into the PhD program and learned that. And so, yeah, those are the three pillars, three things that guide me in what I’m doing.
0:21:14 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: Creativity. Like you, I am a firm believer that we’re all creative. When I hear people say, oh, I’m not creative. My spouse is creative, my kids are creative, but I’m not creative, I respectfully say both. I know that as expressions of the divine, we are all creative. Yeah, maybe your creativity is organizing your closet. Be your creativity. We just connected with some friends last night, and one of our friends retired from Amazon after 20 years working in IT.
0:21:47 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: Well, he had to be extraordinarily creative in his work with computer programming. Maybe your creativity is dance. Maybe your creativity is writing or speaking. And we are all creative.
0:22:00 Christy Belz: Yeah.
0:22:01 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: As expressions of the divine, there is no way that we can’t be. So I try to explore a little bit of creativity in my life every day. And sometimes it’s as simple and as basic as taking a different way to the store. Maybe I don’t go the same way. Maybe I take a left turn and go around a different block. That’s creative. That’s creating new synapses in my brain, up to and including, how are we going to show up differently on the planet during interesting times, and what is my work to do?
0:22:35 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: We get to be creative in our problem solving, in our conversations. And the second pillar, as you identified, is diversity. And I continue to learn so much in that realm. My opportunity is to continue to cast a wider net. Whatever I think I know, whatever I think I’m doing, however loving and kind I think I am, there is always opportunity for me to grow. And so that’s what diversity means to me. It’s well beyond gender, it’s well beyond relational identity.
0:23:11 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: It’s well beyond race. And please hear me, I’m no disrespect to any of those extraordinarily important elements. And there is always more to learn, because as unique and individualized expressions of the divine, every person is diverse. You. You’ve heard, you heard me start off by acknowledging my privilege as a white man of a certain age. And there are things about me that make me diverse, regardless of what, you know, what I might look like.
0:23:43 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: So too with you. So too with every one of your listeners. So my work continues to be recognizing that uniqueness. We may call it diversity. We may call it uniqueness. We may call it Differentness. And to continue.
0:23:58 Christy Belz: Continue writing it down.
0:24:00 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: Yeah. Continue to be okay with that. So that’s the creativity and the diversity. And I continue to do the work as you do around social justice. And what does that look like and what does that feel like and what is mine to do in that arena? And once again, during these challenging times, I, I again, as many of your folks tuning in, I love mlk and I love the work that he did. And one of. One of his phrases that continues to guide my work is the arc of the universe bends toward moral justice, or the moral arc of the universe bends toward justice.
0:24:43 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: It might not always look like that in my human experience. I may not see us get that there during my time on the planet. And MLK says it’s simply a law of the universe. The arc bends toward justice.
0:24:59 Christy Belz: Justice, yeah.
0:25:00 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: So what I think about what I look about, what I pray about, what I meditate about, is what is my work to do in that regard? Do I. When I was previously serving as a spiritual leader in a religious community, when I was a minister in a church in Colorado Springs, Colorado, we put together an event honoring the anniversary of MLK’s I have a Dream speech. And, Christie, I can’t tell you the people who were involved and engaged and wanted to be a part of it, whether they were directing traffic in the parking lot or hosting our guests or creating the hospitality experience in the fellowship hall.
0:25:41 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: He continues to speak to people.
0:25:43 Christy Belz: He does, yeah.
0:25:44 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: And we had a reporter from the Colorado Springs Gazette, the local paper, learn about the event. She called me, she interviewed me, and some of the participants. Some of the participants, including Rev. Rev. Dr. Michelle Medrano from Mile High, came down and was one of our special guests for this event. This reporter ran a front page story in the daily newspaper in Colorado Springs, a major American daily, two weeks before our event, to encourage people to come.
0:26:19 Christy Belz: Wow.
0:26:19 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: And you’ve worked with the media long enough. That’s. That simply doesn’t happen.
0:26:23 Christy Belz: That does not happen.
0:26:24 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: You do get coverage after the event. You never get coverage before the event. And that was not our intention. Our intention was we want to honor this man. We want to honor his work in this society. And my point in sharing all of that around social justice is people are eager. Yes. We are hearing, you know, what some might classify as negative, we might hear what some might label as bad. And a lot of good people are doing really good work.
0:26:54 Christy Belz: Yeah.
0:26:55 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: You included. You included. Bless you. Thank you.
0:26:58 Christy Belz: Right back at you. You got to. Because you. If you have that outward focus and you Let that permeate your being. We tend to forget that. That. That we are divine beings, that we are on a path that justice does, the arc does lean towards justice. There’s so many things that you’re sharing that are just ring so true and it’s hard sometimes not to get frustrated or even fearful sometimes. But I love, I love that your value base is creativity, diversity and social justice, like they gel. And of course, I really, as a social worker, I relate to so much of what you shared there. So thank you. Thank you for that. I just put together a lovely poem and put it on my social media. If you want to follow it on diversity, I am diversity. It’s really powerful.
0:27:42 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: Oh, check that out. Thank you.
0:27:43 Christy Belz: Yeah. So my podcast and my book is about second chances. And it’s my belief that you, every moment of every day is an opportunity to choose again. That’s your second chance. Right. How are you going to choose again in this moment for you? I want you to define second chances in the context of your work. How will you. If you were talking about second chances, how would you tell your audience about if.
0:28:05 Christy Belz: What does that mean to you?
0:28:09 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: As I reflect on second chances and that term, I think you already nailed it when you said we get to choose. We may not always like our choices and we are always a choice.
0:28:25 Christy Belz: Always.
0:28:26 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: For me, I get to lean into my faith. I get to lean in my belief system, so I get to co create what comes next. I shared when I first went to Mile High Church and I just started taking classes, I took all of the classes and then I did some of the advanced work in what they call practitioner studies. I did two years of courses to become a practitioner. I wanted to continue on. And that’s when I stepped into my second master’s degree in consciousness studies.
0:28:57 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: I kept making those choices. For me, academia was important. And the spiritual and the groundedness of spirituality. Yeah, and consciousness work was equally as important. So I was a corporate guy, as I shared, I was flying on the corporate jets. I had the corporate cards during the Olympics. I flew to Sydney twice that year for meetings and then again for the Games. I walk in for this little regional telephone company and I’ve got a gold card and I’m on the jet and I’m traveling internationally.
0:29:32 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: What the what? And it wasn’t as fulfilling as I thought it would be. Every time I got someplace, it was like, that’s really cool. And what’s next? Not from a place of drive, but from a place of what is my soul journey? What have I Come here to learn. And am I learning that so I can continue to learn what I need and want to learn in the next part of that journey? So all of that to say when I was in those classes doing the corporate work, doing the nonprofit work, doing whatever I was doing, I participated in those classes and moved through those classes, felt the call to the two ministerial school, to that second master’s degree.
0:30:21 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: And in the meantime, the international headquarters, or Centers for Spiritual Living, was relocating from Los Angeles to Evergreen, Colorado. And long story short, one of my colleagues in ministerial school was a part of the leadership team, and she said, I think you need to interview for this job. And it was a job running the publishing department. Yeah. That fits for a guy with a degree in journalism and a master’s degree in communication.
0:30:50 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: So I interviewed, and then I started running the publishing department for this international organization, which brought together my past experience in business and marketing and journalism and communication and my current experience of wanting. Wanting to make a difference in the world from a spiritual perspective. So I did that. I was the publisher and editor of Science and Mind magazine for Southern.
0:31:19 Christy Belz: That magazine. Yeah. I read it every morning still.
0:31:21 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: You are kind. And for the April issue, I have written the daily guides, the daily meditations.
0:31:27 Christy Belz: Oh, so I can catch that.
0:31:29 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: Yeah. So starting April 1st. And it just made me smile when the team reached out and asked me to do them. It’s a joy to be back in the magazine. And for the first time in several years, Easter is going to be on 420. For those who may not be familiar, that’s a day that’s important. It’s a short shorthand for marijuana support and cannabis users. And I thought, really, I’m back in the magazine for the first time in a while, and I’m celebrating Easter on 4 20.
0:32:00 Christy Belz: So, anyway, so for me, you live in Colorado, right?
0:32:04 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: Absolutely. Oh, God.
0:32:06 Christy Belz: Many paths to God.
0:32:07 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: Exactly right. God has a sense of humor. One of my ministerial colleagues said, this is a great chance for us to redefine Burning bowl ceremony.
0:32:16 Christy Belz: Exactly. Oh, my God, that is so good. I love that.
0:32:20 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: So that was the opportunity for me to know. I know some folks have the. The epiphany of, I’m not doing this, and I want to do this right. I want to quit my job and become an entrepreneur or I want to take this big job and I know I’ll be successful. Mine was more of a. What? Mine was more of a smooth transition. I was transitioning from that purely corporate background to a spiritual background with a corporate overlay. And then I Stepped into ministry. So. Yeah.
0:32:50 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: So that’s, that’s part of my journey and continues to be. Continues to make my heart happy.
0:32:56 Christy Belz: Yeah. And I just want to shout out to you, I also know that you’re teaching at my beloved Metropolitan State University in the communication course area.
0:33:04 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: Yeah.
0:33:04 Christy Belz: You’re also teaching.
0:33:06 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: I love that and thank you. Yeah. And I know you love it and thank you for your generous support on so many levels. And yes, I started in the journalism and media production department teaching public relations courses and then was also asked to step into some public speaking courses in the school of communication. And Chrissy, that was one of those moments. Thank you for that great lead in. That was one of those moments where I really felt like my background in ministry actually prepared me for academia.
0:33:38 Christy Belz: Yeah.
0:33:39 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: I was having a conversation last October just before the election with four young people. It was a snow day and 25 people didn’t make it in, but four people did. And we were having this really nice conversation. One of the young women identified as white, non binary, non binary. And her concern was about what would happen in the new administration for the issues that were important to her. One young man identified as a dreamer, but he wasn’t officially.
0:34:12 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: And he had done everything he needed to do. He filled out the paperwork, he paid the fees, he did everything that. And he was just too young to make this deadline and he was too old to make that deadline. And he just looked at me, Christy, and he said, Dr. David, I am so terrified that I’m going to be deported to a country that I’ve never lived in. Yeah. All of my training in academia, all of my training in spirituality and ministry, I had to take a moment. I didn’t know what to tell that young man. I couldn’t in all authenticity tell him that it was going to be okay because I don’t know that’s going to be true.
0:34:54 Christy Belz: That’s right.
0:34:55 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: On a spiritual level, of course, it’s always good. And when you’re an 18 year old worrying about being deported, that’s not helpful.
0:35:04 Christy Belz: No.
0:35:05 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: So I got to ask him a question. I not. And I won’t use his real name. I will say, no, what do you need? And he just started crying. He said, I don’t know. So we just sat again. We just sat in the silence.
0:35:20 Christy Belz: Yeah.
0:35:21 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: And thank you. Yes. It’s a joy and an honor to be at Metro so pleased with the fact that 60% of our learners are first generation, college first generation, playing a small role in helping them get acclimated and helping them understand what that looks like and being flexible. Another one of my students last term was a public speaking class. One of the requirements was you got to show up, you got to have a public to speak to.
0:35:49 Christy Belz: Exactly.
0:35:50 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: And this young man missed some class and I reached out and long story short, he was a victim of a gang style shooting through no fault of his own. Wrong place, wrong time. I could be rigid and I could stick to my 17 page syllabus and I could say, you missed class, therefore you’re going to fail the class. To what end, Chris?
0:36:11 Christy Belz: Exactly.
0:36:12 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: So I got to be in that place of creativity. How can we get you what you need on every level? How can we get what I need to be able to pass you in this course? And we got to create something different that supported him and that allowed me to stay in my integrity with the academic community. So, yes, Metro is extraordinary and it’s my. My joy to be there.
0:36:37 Christy Belz: Yeah, yeah. Yesterday they opened up their day of giving, so I don’t know how we did, but we’re doing quite well in our endowment campaign there. So I’m very thrilled.
0:36:46 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: Outstanding. And thank you for your service on so many levels.
0:36:50 Christy Belz: Yeah, yeah. My husband and I are just huge champions of what they’re doing there. I’m a first generation college graduate, and as a social worker, I really came to understand that the way out of poverty for women is to have, get and get an education. And that’s not easy. And Metropolitan State University, MSU allows all many different types of people, nationality, et cetera. But for me, it started when I recognized that women getting an education is the most transformative thing they can do in their life. It transformed mine.
0:37:22 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: Absolutely. And when I taught those two public speaking classes, it’s a university wide requirement, so I had students from all of those backgrounds, from sociology to aeronautical engineering to daycare management to journalism, to wear, whatever. Yeah. And so my first assignment for them was to speak for five minutes about one of your grandparents. And the vast majority of the young women who were speaking spoke about their grandmothers.
0:37:54 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: They spoke about their power, they spoke about their choices, they spoke about their hard work, they spoke about their grandmother’s lack of formal education. And Christie, so many of them spoke into the space. They said, I want to do this for me, and I also want to do it for my grandmother in whatever language or whatever term they use to your point. I had students from Nepal, from Guatemala. I did have a student from Ukraine. I had students from all over Mexico.
0:38:24 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: And I continued to learn so much from the primarily young people. And There are some wisdom keepers as well there, sir.
0:38:33 Christy Belz: Yeah, it’s amazing. All right, let’s take a quick break here. Just pause for a moment. This is just for editing. There’ll be a little segment put in here in the. In between time because we’re going to shift gears. So when we come. When I come back on, this is a new part of the work that it’s the first time I’m doing it. So we’re just going to do something called Second Chances Snapshots.
0:38:53 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: Okay.
0:38:53 Christy Belz: I think you got these questions from Kathy, right? The.
0:38:56 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: You know what? I think she sent them. I did not look at them.
0:38:59 Christy Belz: That’s okay.
0:39:00 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: It’s okay. Be in the moment with you. Yeah.
0:39:03 Christy Belz: Awesome. All right, welcome back here with Dr. Reverend David Goldberg. Oh, what an honor to be with you and to share your wisdom and your insights and just your energy. I love it. We’re going to do something a little bit new on my podcast today. It’s called Second Chances Snapshot. So, firing around, I’m going to ask you a question and see what you come up with.
0:39:28 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: I’m in.
0:39:29 Christy Belz: Okay. What’s one word that describes where you are in your life right now? Joy, if you had to give yourself a pep talk in five words or less, what would it be?
0:39:48 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: It’s good now, and it gets better. A little more than five, but close.
0:39:53 Christy Belz: Someone like you, Mr. Editor, like, usually, you’re so precise. Beautiful. Thank you. What’s one daily ritual that helps you feel grounded?
0:40:03 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: Gratitude. Whether it’s a gratitude journal or just a list in my head, when I wake up, I’m grateful for being here and. Yeah. Carrying that energy throughout the day.
0:40:14 Christy Belz: Yeah. I think it’s Meister Eckhart says, if the only prayer you ever say is thank you, that would be enough.
0:40:19 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: Exactly.
0:40:20 Christy Belz: That gratitude piece.
0:40:21 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: Yes.
0:40:22 Christy Belz: Beautiful. Who in your life has taught you the most about second chances?
0:40:29 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: I would have to say my beloved mom. She made her physical transition years ago. She’s been gone longer than we were together as a family, and she continued to reinvent herself. She was. She was a model in high school, and she was the state sweetheart for demolay. And she and my dad got married. She got married when she was 17, and they lived in Hawaii when he was in the service. So she learned about being a wife and a mother and a military spouse.
0:40:56 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: And then there were the three of us. She had three boys, and then she was a small business person, and then she was an entrepreneur. And when she died, when she made her transition at 57, she was a sophomore in college because she said, I tried to instill in all of you guys my love of education and the importance of education, and now it’s time to do it for me. So she continued to what? To support us, to do what was hers to do on the planet.
0:41:27 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: And as I referenced earlier, she continued to learn to grow and expand as we all are, as the perfect child in whom God is well pleased.
0:41:37 Christy Belz: Beautiful. I love that story. That really touches me thinking about choices, because I think as a women’s empowerment coach in somebody that works primarily with women in my practice, it’s the one thing that I think is the most challenging is when people think that they can only do one thing right and they get stuck in the identity of themselves as that. And so that reinvention wheel is really difficult. So your mom obviously had a lot of courage to be able to say, I did that and I’m gonna do that. And I’ve lived my life jumping around all over, but I do it because I’m very spirit led. Like when spirit says, you need to become a social worker and quit your big job, I’m like, okay.
0:42:16 Christy Belz: When you need to move to Colorado and leave everything, you okay, I just start graduate school six months pregnant. Okay.
0:42:25 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: Thank you for your. Yes, that’s important.
0:42:27 Christy Belz: Yeah.
0:42:28 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: And I mentioned earlier that, that we went and spent some time with some friends last night, and what that was, Christy, was several women who’d been working with this particular coach were doing their version of a TED Talk, for lack of a better term. So it was these four extraordinary women sharing their very different life experience. One speaker was sharing about her work with equine therapy and how she takes her clients out and the horses choose the client and the client choose the horse.
0:42:59 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: Another woman was talking about her father and the importance of rock climbing. And she said, I’m 5:1 and rocks scare me. And she talked about courage in stepping into her courage. And our friend who we were with had spent 20 years as a high ranking executive with LinkedIn and she is creating her own path now. And she’s doing it with humor and she’s doing it with joy. And as you and I know, engaging kinesthetically.
0:43:29 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: She worked the whole stage and she’s using her whole body. And it was, at the risk of sounding patronizing, I didn’t know what I was getting into. I just went to support my husband and his new friend and it was an extraordinary evening of extraordinary to powerful women.
0:43:46 Christy Belz: Yeah. I curated TED Talks for eight years with TEDxCherry Creek Women. And so hundreds of women we coached, brought to the stage, curated. They just like. And there’s nothing more powerful in my mind than a woman sharing her idea. We’re spreading and doing it on a stage like a TED stage that is so well respected. So, yeah, it’s really. It’s a great joy. I just. We stopped this past year, which is a good thing. We need to get a few things off my plates, but, yeah, beautiful. And I bet that was extraordinary.
0:44:17 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: And your point is taken that sometimes in the spiritual realm, I have to do big. I have to change the world. I have to save Ukraine. I have to do this. I have to. I have to, I have to. And one of the things we teach. I know you teach this, and I know I teach this. Is not to should on ourselves. You made a key differentiation. You listen when you go into meditation. You’re not beseeching, you’re not asking.
0:44:43 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: You may say, keep an eye on my husband and my kid. And you’re equal parts talking and equal parts listening. And you are spirit led in that regard. And it just makes a world of difference.
0:44:54 Christy Belz: Yeah, it does. All right, last question. What second chance character inspires you? Whether it’s from real life, fiction, a movie, TV show, or a book, or even a comic.
0:45:08 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: Something from recent pop culture. For any number of reasons, I’m a big movie fan. I don’t watch many as I would like. This year, I did see a few more than I usually do heading into Academy Awards season. And the movie enclave really spoke to me. Yeah, it spoke. It spoke. It speaks to the intersection of my life. It speaks to leadership and spirituality. And this happens to be leadership within the Roman Catholic Church and the politics and what is the balance and where are we praying and where are we politicking and what are the dirty tricks? What dirty tricks within a church?
0:45:52 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: And the interesting surprise ending gave me great hope. So I would say it is that particular ensemble, the power of leadership. And with Isabella Rosalina being nominated for her role as a woman in the conclave of 100% men, she plays a powerful role in the church and she delivers a powerful performance. Yeah. In her role. So that’s my long answer to your very succinct question around what continues to inspire me in my work.
0:46:30 Christy Belz: Yeah, I love that. Thank you very much. Yeah. Talk about second chances. There’s always. The Catholic Church has had one thing after another, and they’re going to continue to face where they are. The Pope right now and what chances they’re going to do and what choices they make in light of Everything else going on in the world. I watched all ten Academy Award. Like I was obsessed. I did ten.
0:46:54 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: You are my people. And again with Saint Francis. Saint. I’m already sainting him with Pope Francis, being the first Jesuit priest and being the first priest from South America. You may have seen some of the things on social that I’ve been seeing around here are the top five candidates from all of these different continents. And you’re spot on, Christy. With regard to spiritual leadership, the Roman Catholic Church is at yet another turning point.
0:47:22 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: What will they do? Who will they select? What will that look like? And that movie that you and I both saw, Conclave, educated me a little bit more as to that process and what happens behind closed doors.
0:47:35 Christy Belz: Yeah. Most people don’t get that. It’s not like that. You apply to become the Pope and that’s what happens. Right. That’s not how that works.
0:47:42 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: You don’t really get to interview.
0:47:43 Christy Belz: No. Oh, my gosh. David, thank you so much. Gosh. I just have enjoyed my time with you, as always, and just your insight, your wisdom. Yeah, you’re just essence. I just love it so much. So I want to make sure that my listeners have an opportunity to learn more about your work, hear you speak, connect with you. Where can they find you?
0:48:03 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: Thank you. My website is my name doctor with a doctor Dr. Davidsgoldberg.com and all of my speaking engagements and the Labyrinth workshop and all of my counseling and coaching work is also on there. I do have a second website which is a ritual efficient and that is the work, Chrissy, that I do with all of the weddings and funerals, all of the rituals of life, all of the what I hope to bring to that arena by way of tranquil transitions, wherever folks are in their life, including end of life, I can support you. I can be with you. I can sit with you.
0:48:42 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: Including one of our mutual dear friends or mother of our dear friend who chose to take advantage of Colorado’s Death with Dignity act. And. And what that looks like and what that feels like. So anyway, a couple of different websites. I love the life ritual work. I did a graveside service and a funeral celebration of life yesterday in Evergreen, Colorado. I’m doing another one tomorrow in Centennial, Colorado.
0:49:08 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: Yeah, I love being with people in those moments of transition.
0:49:12 Christy Belz: Yeah. Beautiful. So they can find you. I know that your phone number and your email address are on the website so they can find you there again, that will be in the show notes. So people will be able just to scroll down and find out how to find you. Just thank you again. Blessings to you and your journey. And for being on this journey with me, I just really thank you. Thanks for being here.
0:49:32 Dr. Reverend David Goldberg: It’s my great honor. Christy, I love the work that you’re doing in the world. Yours is a powerful ministry. And thank you for your. Yes.
0:49:39 Christy Belz: Yeah, you’re very welcome. Blessings. I’ll see you soon. It is the joy of my life to showcase the voices of people and the messy details of life’s journey. As you have experienced, my guests are thriving with purpose and style, but that does not mean that their life is easy and without challenges. I’ve dedicated my life to you and your journey. Thank you for listening to Second Chances with Christy Bells. Please subscribe and learn [email protected]
0:50:11 Christy Belz: backsplash second chances.